Curse

ensoriki · May 14, 2011, 01:53 AM // 01:53

1.Fix map rotation.
2.Give everyone in the alliance 250 kurzick/luxon & Balthazar points whenever they capture a shrine.
3.Give the winner 2500 kurzick/luxon points instead of 1000.
4. Go play AB.

Elnino · May 14, 2011, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Changing the design/mechanics of a format has been proven to be a recipe for failure (see Codex Arena) so it would be wise of Anet to play it safe and do something that will pretty much guarantee a revival of AB - buff rewards. AB died because it didn't offer sufficient rewards compared to JQ, so if it's rewards were to be made sufficient, it would definately see an increase in activity. However, rewards shouldn't be buffed to the point that FA/JQ die. The rewards for all three formats should be balanced around the average time for each match.

Tsiisus · May 15, 2011, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Unlocking the true potential of AB? Let's consider these:

1) people are generally rather stupid, sticking to patterns
2) people don't like to lose. If the lose, they rage.
--> With the loss of players in general, and SOME TEAMS getting very good, mediocre / bad players vanished.

3) Most people that can win a "4v4" are most likely already maxed on title.
- And do we care about rewards at ALL? It's virtual, egoistic bs. The reason why AB is played, imo, is that is at the same time competitive, and fun.

4) Why to supernukorzhhh when...
- We split. We gank. We defend. We stall. We intercept capways, we spike, force retreats- causing eventually huge chaos, especially to teams being superbrave. The TRUE ab hasn't even been discovered by most people. It requires a good communication, understanding, and - it's NOWHERE as boring as simple capways / simple fightways repeating same patterns.

5) Buffs are insane.
Battlecry, npcs... Forcing a fight at a shrine usually leads in a victory against team of "somehow" similar composition. Thus it's nearly impossible sometimes to push shrines due to lack of "defensive" setups, and only focusing on firepower. Unless the skill level is very different.
-Example: pushing eles. Nukes will get thr from npcs. So the only option is to safespike them, or be successful in nuking them, or slowly add pressure and play it safing (assuming it's 4v4). And that might take minutes.

Today, I killed alone 2 guys (+made mesmer retreat) from anc - whatever as invoker at Kaanai nec mes rit shrine. Mesmer even had PI, so rupting displacement was no issue.
By utilizing the power of more "deadly" shrines, all fighting would occur there, at least among wise players - it'd just prolong, and make battles less interesting / fun.
Adding any buffs can wreck the whole mechanism. Just battlecry's speed boost is insane.

6) Capping isn't as important.
- Npcs die rather quickly alone, when not defended. And there are no defenders, if you wipe the team who is against you.

7) Anc / Kaanai
Is rather annoying for attacking team to play at. For it ALMOST forces you to play "nukers", or some mesmerbuilds in order to get in fort - gimping your battle utility. Which yields in similar setups, counters, and without splitting - hard and BORING gameplay resorting in "how to nuke clustered npcs"
- Good players won't play this map that often. Even when they are "stubborn egoists, gotten used to running firebuilds".

By changing things that support more mediocre, or people focused on GAINING something of non-important value will yield nothing worth it - it'd become another JQ quickly. If things aren't "changed" enough, pvpers will exploit the "pvers" harshly.

Simply:Rewards are meaningless. We play this for challenge, or fun. Or you can lose, you can rage, you can stop playing.
Or you can get better.

Only a couple things I'd like to see. More respawn time. Just 1-2 of seconds would do miracles to tactic-wise playing.
(Not to mention getting rid, or at least REDUCING the amount of Kaanai / anc.)

Granting possible entrance to both sides would at least equal the balance in every aspect. Be there penalties on faction, it doesn't really eventually matter, based on the matter presented earlier.

urania · May 15, 2011, 10:37 AM // 10:37

The thing you're forgetting is this is not the AB from 2+ years go. The only challenge now consists out of either getting stomped with nubs by lux synchs or stomp nubs with synchs of your own.

kedde · May 15, 2011, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Thing is, if you make the rewards good enough to take the players from FA/JQ, maybe even pve then you'll be less prone to facing synch teams and in general it'll be more likely to be 12v12 terrible shitters versus each other and the maps will be more neutral as a result.

urania · May 15, 2011, 12:05 PM // 12:05

And that equals no challenge.

Dervish Kid · May 15, 2011, 05:34 PM // 17:34

AB is dead? I didn't know. I haven't been in AB since 2009.

kedde · May 15, 2011, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

And that equals no challenge.

Well, rolling scrubs is more fun than never getting a match. At least that's how ab was 2-3 years ago which was better than it is now.

Charlotte the Harlot · May 16, 2011, 12:32 AM // 00:32

If I remember correctly the trend of always being on a kurzick map started right around the time of that original kurzick FFF, with the 4 runners and the gate guy.

Most the kurzick players who knew what was up with the game started FFF over AB leaving some die hards and the naive left on the kurzick side.

It's clear that a lack of players is by far the biggest issue with AB

I agree, increasing the rewards beyond FFF or JQ/FA will help a lot since many players will just do whatever is financially best for them.

Most players do not like playing AL or KC often, changing the map rotation back to the way it was or a new method would be very good. The two final maps used to be really exciting because they were a big challenge and strategically more demanding than the others, but having to play them all the time takes away whats special about them. It should be on the middle 3 maps at least 80% of the time.

I like the idea of changing the shrine composition, however I wouldn't put a monk on basically every shrine. Being able to solo cap is important, it allows a lot more variety in how you can split up the 3 teams. If players do start mobbing and solo capping is much harder then it's not as beneficial for the other team to not just go for the mob.... if that makes sense. Making them slightly heartier is a good idea tho, I don't think a nuker should be able to take out a shrine in 3 seconds.

No offence but I think the idea of a field effect based on your team is absolutely terrible. There is an inherent kurzick advantage on grenz and more so ancestral if the teams were of equal skill the home team should be winning. I know this isn't the case but AB will never be proper if it is balanced around an assumption that one team is straight worse than another.

If these effects were in use it would be nearly impossible to win on the attacking team unless the other team is always absolute garbage, in which case there is a deeper problem than what this will fix.

I think being able to freely change your allegiance and easily convert between lux and kurz faction will solve a lot of the problems that you were trying to address with the flux bonus.

I support an AB title but agree its not too important.

Some additional suggestions.

Let both teams use the portals on ancestral and canyon, it would allow for more dynamic movement from the attacking team.

If a certain amount of map changes are spent stuck on any one map it should automatically reset to salt spray.

Make the elemental and meele defense points more like the battle cry shrine; have them give an effect you can take with you (+15 elemental/+10 physical def for example) maybe give the attack shrines inside the base + damage. This would give a similar but weaker effect to your flux idea, since the defending team starts with these shrines.

urania · May 16, 2011, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

Well, rolling scrubs is more fun than never getting a match. At least that's how ab was 2-3 years ago which was better than it is now.

Somehow, my memories tell me AB from 2-3 years ago was a lot more challenging and, especially, a lot more fun.

kedde · May 16, 2011, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

Somehow, my memories tell me AB from 2-3 years ago was a lot more challenging and, especially, a lot more fun.

That to me isn't due to changes to the format, but outside influence. Take, stupid general balance decisions which means the huge mob of scrubs spamming their skills randomly will kill you more easily now than 3 years ago.

wuzzman · May 28, 2011, 04:12 PM // 16:12

If I remember correctly AB was about running around in circles away from the opposing mob of players. Somehow I doubt i'm the only one who caught on to that and found the format dreadfully boring.

Sankt Hallvard · May 28, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

If I remember correctly AB was about running around in circles away from the opposing mob of players. Somehow I doubt i'm the only one who caught on to that and found the format dreadfully boring.

I can tell a lot about you by what you just said. Several clues are offered in this thread, though.

Judge Nl · May 29, 2011, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

If I remember correctly AB was about running around in circles away from the opposing mob of players. Somehow I doubt i'm the only one who caught on to that and found the format dreadfully boring.

One could run arround in circles in RA too, but it's not what it is about.

Sometimes i see it in kaanai or lands. Some people say "clockwise!", then run / cap arround in circles the whole match, no matter what the enemy does.

But know it's pvp: you are playing AB against other people. It's not only their teams against the teams of your side. But also a battle of tactics. Get any advantage on score / tactical situation with the tactics of your teams.

very roughly summed up AB = Cap m Crazy & Slap m Silly
that and tactics

wuzzman · May 29, 2011, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Every time I've played AB it was far more efficient to cap shrines than to fight players. Hence why people run around and cap in shrines in circles.

kedde · May 31, 2011, 08:40 PM // 20:40

The fun was in the fact that bringing along some decent people you knew would enable you to control the direction of the game and tank the entire 12v4 scenario if you were good. This no longer applies due to powercreep.

urania · Jun 01, 2011, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

That to me isn't due to changes to the format, but outside influence. Take, stupid general balance decisions which means the huge mob of scrubs spamming their skills randomly will kill you more easily now than 3 years ago.

never claimed it was due to AB specific changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

The fun was in the fact that bringing along some decent people you knew would enable you to control the direction of the game and tank the entire 12v4 scenario if you were good. This no longer applies due to powercreep.

^this.

I used to run purge ZB bar with disci stance and guardian/soa and could survive longer vs a mob than I can now as a tanky mo/w with patient and woh. meh.

dorin · Jun 01, 2011, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

The fun was in the fact that bringing along some decent people you knew would enable you to control the direction of the game and tank the entire 12v4 scenario if you were good. This no longer applies due to powercreep.

AMEN to this.

wuzzman · Jun 02, 2011, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I think you guys are mistaking people no longer using their pve builds to being soo good other player can only weeep in your awesome.

dorin · Jun 03, 2011, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Out of curiosity about how ab will react after this update.